tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post3905332204329832918..comments2023-10-30T10:39:53.947-04:00Comments on The Lost Flashbacks: Baptism in Lost - Josh's commentsFaithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11545602975020408351noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-6716659030321479102007-12-14T15:54:00.000-05:002007-12-14T15:54:00.000-05:00As a Jewish Atheist (Jewish by heritage, Atheist b...As a Jewish Atheist (Jewish by heritage, Atheist by disbelief) I pretty much regard all matters of religious nature as fiction, and all matters of christian beliefs as 'outside the realm of what I believe".<BR/><BR/>As far as baptism goes, of course I think its unnecessary, but I'm no more offended by the beliefs attached to it than any other crazy thing some people believe that I don't.<BR/><BR/>I think this rant has a lot more to do with Josh taking real life offense to the idea that you must be baptized to lead a fufilling afterlife, or perhaps the idea that people think he's a doomed soul because his beliefs are different, regardless of what kind of man he is and what kind of life he leads.<BR/><BR/>For me, I consider all matters of religion fictional, and although I do recognize that many real life people really believe religion.. well for me I was watching a TV show.<BR/><BR/>I accept that Charlie is a religious man in the context of the show and I saw the baptism as a plot point. I saw the point as showing Charlie getting back in touch w/his religous self, the guy he was before he became a junkie. The real Charlie before it all went wrong for him.<BR/><BR/>And that the baptism was about Charlie in the context of who he is protecting the child from hellfire and damnation, not so much a commentary on the importance of baptism.<BR/><BR/>Yeah I know I'm behind you, but I'm not gonna stop now that I've come so far w/you guys.<BR/><BR/>I think Bernard is Jewish. I don't know why. I just do.Dawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08526917547945008148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-8172796081000723162007-11-28T20:24:00.000-05:002007-11-28T20:24:00.000-05:00Josh, I agree with most of what you said. But I do...Josh, I agree with most of what you said. But I don't think Darlton meant to portray it as fact but were rather just showing how strongly each character believed in it.<BR/><BR/>Although I think they just got lazy and chose Baptism as the theme, it's one of those things we won't see now that we have a set number of episodes left. I could barely get through it even the first time.ashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17740006298330442908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-71205798235938956672007-11-27T02:11:00.000-05:002007-11-27T02:11:00.000-05:00Josh,I guess what I meant was with such a well-rou...Josh,<BR/>I guess what I meant was with such a well-rounded, well-written character like Eko I didn’t really feel preached at. I might have if he was a white guy in a $500 suit and perfect hair.<BR/>Locke doesn’t represent any particular religion, but he fit’s nicely into the context of faith and questioning what you believed in. I think you can play ‘which one’s the Skinner Box’ with a church as well as a Dharma hatch/station.<BR/>Don’t get me wrong, you make some excellent points and brought up a great discussion. Having never been baptized I hope it’s only symbolic and not a necessary get out of hell free card. Even those who believe that you need to be baptized to get into heaven are divided on weather or not you should baptize infants, weather you should be sprinkled or submerged etc., etc.<BR/>I remember that great scene in ‘The Cost of Living’ where Eko stands defiant and refuses to repent for the love of his brother and what he needed to do to survive. For me that’s a much stronger profession of faith than any ritual. The whole looking down the barrel of a gun thing.geeky tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07185657859166241267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-82729669828399104822007-11-26T23:43:00.000-05:002007-11-26T23:43:00.000-05:00Geeky Tom, I want to clear something up. I love E...Geeky Tom, I want to clear something up. I love Eko, and think he's one of the most complete, and complex characters on the show. I love the religious refferences they do with his character. But never before had they been so outwardly trying to express one religious view, and how correct it is. <BR/><BR/>With Locke and the button, that's not a real life religion, and having "faith in the island" is not an actual religion. AND, most people I would think, thought Locke was slightly crazy. But somehow thinking water will save you seems fine and dandy, and is talked about as fact. I know many don't share my thoughts, but I think the baptism thing has serious problems, on many levels.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07619573299173319254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-10485842046981004472007-11-26T18:54:00.000-05:002007-11-26T18:54:00.000-05:00Unless it's revealed within the series that Aaron ...Unless it's revealed within the series that Aaron made into heaven, I don't think the writers are making any definitive statement about baptism. For me it 's just an act of faith that's consistent with the characters, like Locke and the button.<BR/>As for Eko, I agree he didn't make a good priest, but he made a great character. I loved his conflicted nature complete with a blood stained scripture stick, and his virgin Mary statues filled with heroin. It's great dichotomy but probably not meant to promote any religion or religious practice.geeky tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07185657859166241267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-41905687366180431642007-11-23T08:34:00.000-05:002007-11-23T08:34:00.000-05:00I agree pretty much with what you say about the wa...I agree pretty much with what you say about the way baptism was portrayed in the show. The way Eko explained it was incorrect as far as what I was taught (I was raised Catholic, btw.) But I was conflicted over how we were supposed to take it. For example, I always understood that even if someone is not a priest, if a person of any age was in immediate danger of death, the lay person could baptize that person. Again, in terms of Lost, I don't think Eko or Claire thought Aaron was in immediate, imminent danger of dying. But if they did, again, that would make a little more sense to me.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Eko was not a real priest as far as the Catholic Church would see it, but he was called a priest on the island and never corrected anyone. I don't remember whether he referred to himself as a priest either. So, when he explained baptism to Claire, I guess I thought he was speaking as a priest, as far as she knew. And, no offense to anyone, but priests can have an incomplete understanding of Catholic or Christian theology, and there are good ones and bad ones too, just like there are good or bad ministers or clerics in any religion. And, I have personally met priests and religious (nuns) who have some, in my opinion, pretty wild ideas! But, in terms of Lost, if Eko was just speaking as Eko, and made that clear to Claire, (and if he was going to perform the baptism, he really wasn't), I could accept that a little easier. <BR/><BR/>I also was under the impression that Claire had some familiarly with Christianity in general, but it seemed like her knowledge wasn't that solid either, based on the questions she was asking Eko. But I distinctly got the impression that Eko and Claire believed that whatever danger Aaron was in, baptism would somehow protect him, in this life and afterwards. It seemed like they did believe it was some kind of spiritual talisman, and that's not my understanding of baptism in general either.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I believe that people, real or fictional, are entitled to believe whatever they want. What I have a problem with is people giving incorrect information and passing it off as correct based on who they claim to be. And, if given the chance, would someone like Claire, take the time to investigate her newly-professed faith? Maybe. Of course, she could not be blamed for believing something she was told by someone she thought was a priest.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, that's my three cents.Ella Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05400604202214975801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-529639632825163072007-11-20T11:49:00.000-05:002007-11-20T11:49:00.000-05:00I totally hear what you're sayin' on this. I neve...I totally hear what you're sayin' on this. I never really had any strong opinion on it one way or the other.<BR/><BR/>I grew up as a Lutheran, both my sister and I were baptized long before we had the capacity to make a choice about it. I was pretty much told for the first 10-12 years of my life that it was because of it that I would be saved and go to Heaven. But it's been so long since I took it seriously (or literally or what have you) that I never even noticed the show was following the same kind of mentality.<BR/><BR/>I think more than anything else, the writers are toying with hypotheticals. Much in the same way that the movie "Ghost" explores the possibility of an afterlife, comes out and says "Maybe this is what the afterlife is. Maybe this is what happens." But as a work of fiction, "maybe" is the extent of its credence. Same with LOST, I guess.<BR/><BR/>I know I'm a little bit beside the point, this comment just kind of wrote itself.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11514497067392929575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-66009356529073312282007-11-20T00:12:00.000-05:002007-11-20T00:12:00.000-05:00Good for you, Josh! I am a Christian too (Eastern ...Good for you, Josh! I am a Christian too (Eastern Orthodox as well, actually lol) and I definitly believe in baptism. however, I agree with you about the way the show made it look.<BR/><BR/>If people aren't Christians or of they don't believe in that sort of thing, it shouldn't be forced on people.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad that you voiced your opinion! I respect you very much for that!<BR/><BR/>www.thehydrablog.blogspot.comLaurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233960173853096536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1736061964170196509.post-84643195347841481142007-11-19T18:33:00.000-05:002007-11-19T18:33:00.000-05:00Wow! You definitely have strong views about this....Wow! You definitely have strong views about this.<BR/><BR/>Maybe because I'm Christian (Eastern Orthodox no less!) this completely passed me by. I never thought the episode was particularly pushing baptism as Aaron's only salvation, because it is Charlie's hallucination which drives the story. We don't know where the visions come from (the island? Charlie's withdrawal from Heroin?) so we still can't tell how important it was that Aaron be baptised, other than for Claire's peace of mind. It would have been more overt for Claire or Eko to have had the vision - perhaps a bridge too far.<BR/><BR/>In more general terms there is a disparity between the separate portrayals of religion on Lost. We see Sayid praying once, some references to Buddhism and whatever the Others are all about. I can't recall any mention of Judaism on the show, nor any Jewish characters (please correct me if I'm wrong). It's reasonable that they address this in the remaining episodes but I doubt they will. I predict the only religious material we'll get will be about the Others, unless somebody finds religion off-island in a flash-forward.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for sharing your views because it'd be boring if we all agreed - we'd be <A HREF="http://www.spicetart.com/images/bodysnatchers.jpg" REL="nofollow">pod people</A> ;)eliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07190503409394895327noreply@blogger.com