Friday, September 28, 2007

Don't mistake rebuttal for support


Its a famous, iconic line from the show - "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." But do we all interpret it the same way? Clearly not. We discussed it in the episode, and now we want to hear your thoughts! Amanda thinks that Eko is on the side of coincidence, and Locke is still a firm believer in faith. Josh thinks that Locke has shifted gears to thinking of the more rational coincidence, and the priest in Eko makes him a strong believer in fate.

What do YOU think?

13 comments:

travis said...

I agree with Amanda! When Locke is talking about the odds, he's saying that they are so great it can't be anything but fate. Ecko disagrees and says "don't confuse coincidence with fate." If it were the otherway around and Ecko believed it was fate that brought them together and he thought Locke didn't he would've said "Don't confuse FATE with coincidence."

travis said...

Also, Josiah helps find the book of Deuteronomy, not the entire Old Test.

And Mikhail has a horse at the Flame.

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Others%27_horse

Andrea said...

I think that Eko and Locke believe in fate for the following reasons:

1. Eko comes from a religious background, Christian specifically, which is based on the idea that nothing happens as a coincidence. Things happen for a reasons and there is a higher being who is orquestrating the events as meant to be.

2. Eko tells a story where fate brought Josiah to find The Book which was ultimally the way they rebuilt the city. He then tells Locke that he (Eko) found the book on the other side of the island and now they, together, will find out more about what is happening.

3. Locke believes that they came to the island for a reason. You remember the famous speech. He looses faith, but that is only later on.

4. Locke believed that all roads led to the hatch, where he would find the answer to the island. This event substantiates his belief that this is fate.

My conclusion is that Locke made that comment about coincidence to see where Eko stood on the issue. Until now, he wasn't sure about Eko's belief system. Eko's response, gives Locke more confidence or confirms that fate is what is in control. The island is orquestrating the events just as he thinks it is.

On the next episode, we will see Eko fight with this same issue (coincidence vs. fate) when he finds the plane with his dead brother. How could he end up on the same island? It can't be coincidence, it has to be fate.

As to the answer of who believes in coincidence on the island, that would be Jack.

Josh said...

That's awesome, maybe Kate's horse was a real horse.


Very interesting points Andrea, I hadn't considered that he may have been testing Eko. It definetly is something that Locke would do, and that look he gives him definetly is a look of, "One of us, One of us, One of us".

Janic said...

I can't believe I missed that till I heard your podcast. Actually I always thought, Eko was trying to tell Locke that it WAS fate. (what Josh thought).

But "don't mistake coincidence for fate" clearly means the exact opposite. Eko is telling Locke it was just coincidence... and I hate it. It makes absolutely no sense. Like Josh said, Eko compared it to the discovery of the new testament.

Maybe it's just an easteregg by Darlton for Lost freaks like us... I'm confused.

Congested said...

Cool about the Horse Travis... wonder who rides it around tho. :)

-

I thought about this more today and logic would say that, when reading the line word for word Eko was saying it was fate. Though the way the line is delivered it some how came out the other way to me... I still am not sold on it one way or another but I am now changing my position a bit, and leaning 60/40 that Eko meant that it was fate.

travis said...

Ecko doesn't believe in fate UNTIL he finds Yemmi's plane, IMO. Acutally, Ecko and Locke are going in different directions early in season 2. Locke becomes more and more disenchanted with the hatch and the island -- that's why he abandons the button and believes Ben when he told him nothing happens when the button isn't pushed. While Ecko finds the plane and comes to realize that fate brought him and his brother to the island -- that's why he takes up the button for Locke.

elias said...

that's what I thought Travis - Eko doesn't believe it's fate until he finds Yemi in The 23rd Psalm. Then he becomes a priest.

This is why rewatching Lost was such a good idea.

Dawn said...

Jack's chopping wood cause hes sexually frustrated!

rainspitter said...

I agree with Amanda, it's a pretty common phrase and the first part always the one you are not supposed to mistake with the second part.

i.e.. plug in the definition of "for" (2 a : as being or constituting )
Don't mistake coincidence as being fate
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/for

also here is a google search where you can see a few other instances of it being used.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=lit&q=don%27t+mistake+this+for+that&btnG=Search

I agree with the others that Eko didn't have faith until he found Yemi's plane. When he found Yemi and the plane he gained his faith as seen symbolically with him taking the cross and telling Charlie he is a priest.

rainspitter said...

I agree with Amanda, it's a pretty common phrase and the first part is always the one you are not supposed to mistake with the second part.

i.e.. plug in the definition of "for" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/for 2a : as being or constituting )
Don't mistake coincidence as being fate

also here is a Google search where you can see a few other instances of it being used.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=lit&q=don%27t+mistake+this+for+that&btnG=Search
(If it cuts off the address in the post I just searched for... don't mistake this for that

I agree with the others that Eko didn't have faith until he found Yemi's plane. When he found Yemi and the plane he gained his faith as seen symbolically with him taking the cross and telling Charlie he is a priest.

Lauren said...

I think both Locke and Eko are believers in fate. Judgsing by Season 3, Locke still firmly believes that everything is happeneding for a reason.

However, the true difference lies within each of themselves faith. Locke, who's heart has been broken many times and has had such disappointment in his life, has very weak faith. Eko, rather, has a strong faith and even something like The Pearl Orientation video cannot make him weak, even if it makes Locke weak.

Hope that made sense!

borginho said...

You can tell by the way Eko says the sentence that he definitely believes it is fate rather than coincidence. Locke uses the word 'odds' which stands for chance, probability, Coincidence. Eko shows he is disagreeing by saying 'dont mistake coincidence for fate', as he believes fate has brought them together rather than chance.